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1. I am looking at buying a good solid top guitar in the $300 to $400 dollar range. I recently tried a Norman B20 HG and really liked the sound. It has vintage Grover tuners, has been set up to lower the action, and the saddle (taylor) and bridge pins (bone) have been replaced.
2. Oct 29, 2008 The serial number on the sticker is #1602. According to this serial number should be old, but confusing is that looks like made yesterday. Any idea of value?
3. Where to find the serial number Depending on the model you find the serial number stamped into the neck plate or stamped on the fingerboard at the last fret or on the headstock. If you want to know the production year of your Squier guitar,you can decipher it with the serial number decoder, or find it in explanation about the dating system below.
4. HOW TO FIND YOUR SERIAL NUMBER Some instruments will have serial numbers engraved on the plate connecting the neck to the body. Some models will have the serial number on the back of the headstock. Some basses will have the serial number under the intonation screws on the bridge plate.

REFERENCE & RESOURCE PAGES:

SUPERSOUND (1958) - BURNS-WEILL (1959) - FENTON WEILL (1960-65)

ORMSTON BURNS (1960-1965) - AMPEG (1963-64) - BALDWIN (1965-69)

SHERGOLD WOODCRAFTS (1967-69) - ORMSTON (1968) - HAYMAN (1970-75)

The A&L spruce or cedar is the same guitar as the Norman B18 or B20, the S&P spruce6/cedar6, and the seagull S6. Search the area around the serial number for a date stamp. Not all guitar brands use date stamps, but if you find one, you have your answer. Look for the brand name decal on the guitar's headstock.

BURNS UK (1973-77) - BURNS ACTUALIZERS (1979-82) - SHERGOLD (1975-92)

TIMELINE - PUBLICITY - FACTORY

ARTIST - DELUXE - SONIC - BLACK BISON - VISTA

BLACK BISON III - JAZZ - TR-2 - NU-SONIC - MARVIN - DOUBLE 6

BISON - VIBRASLIM - GB65 - GB66 - VIRGINIAN - BABY BISON

AMPLIFIERS - ACCESSORIES - PROTOTYPES

Rear of 131 Queens Road, Buckhurst Hill, Essex

These photos were kindly shared with me by Bill Lovegrove, co-author of 'The Jim Burns Story'.

The book is available to buy here and makes for an incredible read, containing hundreds of never-before-published photographs and anecdotes from family and Burns-team members, spread over 400 full-colour pages! It's a small-run privately printed book, and copies are very limited, so if you want one I'd urge you to order one now before they are all gone!

Jimmy Jams, 22nd April 1961.

Jim on Ormston Hawaiian Lap Steel, Phil Sweet on Burns Thinline Prototype through Tele Amp (or two?)

Station Approach, Cherry Tree Rise, Roding Valley

Photo from the Farrell archives. Presumed circa mid-1962, preparing for a Trade Fair?

25th April 1963 Ormston Burns Letter

Burns Guitars Research Team, 1963:

Hi Everyone, This a picture of me (John Clark) on the left, with Gordon Chandler (chief designer) and Phil Storm aka Phil Sweet (designer draughtsman). It was 1963 I think and I was 18.

Unloading a lorry outside the Burns factory

Memories from Norman Houlder

Re: BURNS ARTIST BASS info? Norm?

• Post by n.houlder » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:00 pm

Hi
As far as I can remember? that instrument was all hand moulded with fixed neck moulded to the body.
There is only one person that could help is Lez Andrews. He was the main cabinet maker in the early days, he lives in
Plymouth. He was the mainstay for Burns right from the early days in Buckhurst Hill basement; I was roped in to Mechanize the production in the early 60s when they moved to Roding Valley with Jack Golder in charge. I diverse. I did get involved with the Black Bison; trying to machine that one was a bit of a headache with it's curled up horns. When they started screwing the necks on that's when I stepped in. Sorry can't help. Have you had a look in the Burns book by Per Gjord PEARLS & CRAZY DIAMONDS? It's very informative of all Jim Burns efforts.

• Post by n.houlder » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:59 pm

BURNS FACTORY PROMOTIONAL SHOTS

Published October 1963

Above: Dave Van Doorn with a TR2

'Bert'

Above: Keith Davis working on Touch-Sensitive Bass prototype

Brooklands Approach (Published address Chesham Close), Romford

Patents:

VISIT TO EDDIE CROSS & SON, 1984 (Walter Kavli)

Stewart Orr: 'I met Eddie at the factory in the eighties and I remember those Bisons. Eddie explained that when Baldwin stopped they simply piled all the machinery, stock and anything else into a corner and pressed on with their other work. I remember Eddie producing a box full of Bison tuner covers, he felt that Jack Golder with his background at Rootes motors constantly over-ordered parts and this did not help cashflow! Glad he did though. Eddie had a framed 'bounced cheque' from JB on his wall. The cessation of Baldwin gave Eddie's dad very serious problems at the time as they were the biggest customer he had.'

Eddie Cross' Engraving Machine

SPRAY FINISHERS 'G. Brunt, 17 Charlotte Rd, London'

JOB FIGURES Dec 1964-Nov 1965

Signed off by Jack Golder

From phone conversation with Paul Day

Paul Day's Vibrato Series overview:

The earliest version of Burns' recessed bridge/vibrato assembly was the 'Series 1', introduced in 1962. This employed either 'solid' style saddles mounted on a thin steel bridgeplate, or the earlier cradle type bridge (used on the Split Sound bass only), both carried on a large diameter roller. The vibrato arm screwed straight into the string retaining spindle, which was located right at the rear of the large aluminium baseplate and spring tension was non-adjustable. The accompanying cover was initially a push-on type, subsequently superseded by the screw fixing flanged equivalent, but on both versions the vibrato arm access hole was accordingly sited towards the back of the cover top. The revised 'Series 2' design first appeared around late '63. This featured 'open' style saddles mounted on a much thicker, aluminium bridgeplate, which was in turn carried on a correspondingly smaller diameter roller. The vibrato arm was now fitted to a collar around the string retaining spindle and this collar could be swivelled to vary arm angle height as required. The spindle was sited further forward, as the attached vibrato spring was shorter and now faced backwards, terminating at a tension adjuster. The vibrato arm access hole in the cover top naturally was moved forward to match, but just to muddy the waters (in typical Burns manner of course!), this aperture varied slightly in both size and location, as did overall proportions of the cover, suggesting that measurements changed depending on batch manufacture. This means some covers fit and line up better than others, while the partner threaded body inserts also play their part in accurate (or otherwise) positioning. The flanged cover used on the various basses and the Double Six adopted a similar appearance but was deeper to provide the necessary extra clearance.

Alongside Fender, Gibson, Martin and Rickenbacker, Gretsch was one of the original American guitar manufacturers. As such, there are a lot of vintage specimens hidden under beds, lurking in closets or parading in plain sight on shop walls (and Reverb listings). Half the battle of finding a great deal or pre-empting conflict is accurately dating the guitar in question. The guide below is intended to help you identify the production year of any Gretsch guitar, given the serial number and its location on the guitar. This information has been compiled from multiple sources (cited at bottom). Their collective investigative legwork deserves the respect and gratitude of us all.

Like the other Giants of Original American Guitars (save Martin), Gretsch had its share of corporate hand-offs and resulting serial number inconsistencies over the years. While the situation isn't quite as bad as say, Gibson or Guild, this guide should be viewed as the best available consensus, not gospel. In some cases a serial number may leave you with a fuzzy span of several years, and in others you will know which number your guitar was within a batch during a specific month and year. And there's always the possibility of discovering a specimen that completely upends common knowledge about what was produced when. Just make sure it's not modified or a partscaster before screaming from the Gretsch-pert mountaintops.

The best approach is to cross-reference the serial number with known features for the model during different eras and the personal account of previous owners. Getting the correct year is one thing, but getting the story behind a guitar is the fun part. The guide for that is much simpler: be nice, ask questions, offer whiskey.

Overview of Gretsch Production Eras

If you have absolutely no idea whether your Gretsch is old or new, a good place to start is the model number. This will give you an approximate idea of the era during which your guitar was manufactured. It's also one more piece of evidence to pair with the serial number to corroborate the actual year.

1933 - 1948: Model numbers reflect retail price. The original Synchromatic models.
1948 - 1971: 6000 Series (example, the original 6120 Chet Atkins Hollowbody)
1971 - 1980: 7000 Series (though the 8000 Series started in 1979)
1979 - 1983: 8000 Series
1990 - present: G before the number. (i.e. G6120)

Does this also tell me where my Gretsch was manufactured, you ask? It depends. The bulk of vintage Gretsch specimens were manufactured in the original factory in New York, with a decade of Arkansas production during the '70s. From there, things get a bit more complicated. See the reference below.

Early 1900s - 1970: New York City
1970 - 1979: Booneville, Arkansas
1979 - 1981: Various locations including Mexico. Low production.
1989 - present: Japan (Terada factory)
1995 - present: US (Custom & Masterbuilt Series)
2000 - present: China and Korea (Electromatic & Synchromatic Series)

You will also hear people throw around terms with Gretsch guitar like pre-Baldwin or Fender-era. This refers to the corporate ownership changes the company experienced over time. Gretsch is unique in that it started as a family company, was bought out and later taken back by the family, only to be bought a second time. See the reference below.

Norman Guitar Serial Number Search Engine

Pre-Baldwin Era: 1883 - 1967. Gretsch is family owned, growing to major distribution. This was the original Golden Age for Gretsch, particularly the late '50 and early '60s, when they enjoyed the endorsement of Chet Atkins and George Harrison.
Baldwin Era: 1967 - 1981. Gretsch is bought by Baldwin as a second choice after failing to buy Fender. Production moved to Baldwin/Burns factory in Arkansas. Quality and worker morale drop in the wake of new management and two factory fires. Chet Atkins withdraws his endorsement.
Revival Era: 1989 - 2002. Fred W. Gretsch (great grandson of the founder) buys back the company. Production begins in Japan's Terada plant, mostly re-creating classic models.
Fender Era: 2002 - present. Fender buys Gretsch with complete control. Model ranges expand and quality improves even further, with standard models produced in Japan and budget models produced in China, Korea or Indonesia.

In the eyes of collectors, late '50s and early '60s models are most desirable, particularly specimens with the same features as those played by Harrison or Atkins. Specimens from 1967 - 1981 are mostly considered player-grade, non-collectible guitars, though some models like the Atkins Axe and Super Axe have a strong following. In terms of raw playability, the made-in-Japan models of the last decade are regarded as high-quality instruments that avoid some of the flaws of the mid-20th century designs on which they're based.

Serial Numbers

To find the serial number on your Gretsch, start by looking at the headstock. On most modern (post-1989) Gretsch guitars, you'll find it on the back of the headstock. Some models from 1962 - late '60s also had serial numbers on the top of the headstock or on the model plate, but for most vintage specimens you'll be looking for a label, either visible through the F-hole on hollow bodies or in a control cavity for solid bodies (in which case you'll need some tools). Before 1949 there were no labels and serials were written in pencil inside the guitar.

Gretsch serial numbers were sequential (a la Martin) from 1939 - 1966. When Baldwin took over, serials became date-coded from 1967 - 1981.

Click on the links here to jump directly to the serial number style that matches your instrument:

Pre-War: 1939 - 1945

In the early years, Gretsch began with sequential serial numbers, written by hand usually in pencil directly on the inside of the guitar body. As such, many of these serials will be faded, nearly illegible or erased completely. At the very least, if you only see three hard-to-read numbers, you can be fairly confident that it's a pre-war instrument.

Four Digit Sequential: 1945 - 1954

This era saw the transition from hand-written penciled serial numbers to official labels in 1949, though the numbering system remained the same.

Keep in mind that the ranges below are best consensus approximations. A healthy +/- one year disclaimer is as good as it's going to get, based on the historical examples available. In general, a higher number means the guitar was produced later in the year or transitioned into the range for the overlapping year. Notice the uptick in production in 1954.

Five Digit Sequential: 1954 - 1965

Epiphone Guitar Serial Number Search

This era continued the same sequential numbering scheme. The only difference is that the number of guitars produced (and thus serial numbers) got higher. A funny thing happened, however, in 1957. A batch of nearly a thousand serial number labels were misplaced, only to be rediscovered - and used - in 1965. A confusing but known anomaly. Thankfully, guitars made in 1965 had different features. See the end of our article if you're unsure whether your guitar is a '57 or a '65.

Baldwin Era, No Hyphen: 1966 - 1972

With the imminent Baldwin buyout and yearly production topping 150,000 guitars, Gretsch switched to a date-coded system in August of '66. Some specimens oddly have these serials stamped into the thin top of the headstock, while others have it on the back. Starting in June of '67, the words 'Made in the USA' were stamped next to the serial number. Here is the date-code breakdown:

Example: A serial number showing 118145 would indicate a guitar made in November (11) of 1968 (8) that was the 145th down the assembly line that month.

Baldwin Era, Hyphenated: 1972 - 1981

These guitars are a bit easier to identify, since they are the only Gretsch specimens with a hyphen (or a space) after the first one or two digits. The meaning of the numbers remained the same.

Example: A serial number of 4-3001 would indicate the 1st guitar made in April of 1973.

Modern Pre-Fender: 1989 - 2002

When Gretsch the great-grandson regained control of the company, there was a solid decade of Japan production with a xxxxxx-xxx type serial number. These serial numbers include year, month, model number and production order info.

Example: A serial number of 998120-345 tells us this guitar was made in 1999 during the month of August (8) and is a G6120 model (120), the 345th to be produced during the Revival Era.

Starting in 1999, Gretsch began producing budget-level Electromatic, Synchromatic and Historic Series guitars in Korea. Unfortunately, these guitars followed no clear numbering system. Worse yet, the serial numbers were put on a simple sticker on the back of the headstock, ensuring that they would be lost immediately. Fender eventually corrected this when they took over in 2002, but there remains a batch of made-in-Korea Gretsch guitars from 1999 - 2002 that have no serial number.

Fender Era: 2002 - Present

Brand new Gretsch guitars seen hanging in shops today are the result of Fender's respect for the company's loyal fan base, an understanding of the Gretsch aesthetic and tight quality control. Thankfully, regardless of the series or point of manufacture, Fender decided to use a single serial number system for all post-2002 guitars.

Contemporary Gretsch serial numbers have a two letter prefix indicating the location of manufacture, followed by a two-digit year, a two-digit month and a four-digit production number relating to that specific factory for the given year.

Example: A serial number of JT04021010 tells us the guitar was made at the Japan Terada factory (JT) in 2004 (04) during the month of February (02) as the 1,010th Gretsch guitar made at the factory that year.

The key below shows which prefixes correspond to which factories.

Norman Guitar Serial Number Search Engine

Caveats, Exceptions, Gratitude

The serial number should serve as one piece of evidence in dating a guitar, even though it is usually the most powerful piece. Examine the checking on the finish, the age of the wiring, the tuners, the bridge and the knobs to corroborate the age of the guitar you're looking at. If you're about to put down a hefty sum on a vintage Gretsch, we strongly encourage you to consult multiple sources such as Gruhn's Guide To Vintage Guitars and The Gretsch Pages to understand what features and hardware were original for a given year. This will help avoid buying a guitar with non-original parts.

Fender Guitar Serial Number Search

We can hardly express enough how grateful we are for the hard work that the good folks at The Gretsch Pages website, Mike Lewis at Fender, Jay Scott and George Gruhn have put in to help refine the available public information on Gretsch serial numbers.